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Post by Barr Avel on Mar 22, 2007 16:59:28 GMT 1
I am renewing my Seastart membership. Haven't had to use them yet, arguably my money could be better spent by giving it to the RNLI?
But I'd hate to have to call them out for some mundane reason.
Intrigued as to what you guys think...
Marc.
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Post by jimbuoy on Mar 22, 2007 17:04:12 GMT 1
I am renewing my Seastart membership. Haven't had to use them yet, arguably my money could be better spent by giving it to the RNLI? But I'd hate to have to call them out for some mundane reason. Intrigued as to what you guys think... Marc. Very interesting question and i think the desire to avoid a daft call to the RNLI is a good one.... How much is the SeaStart membership? Jim |
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Post by Barr Avel on Mar 22, 2007 17:14:57 GMT 1
I think it is £140 and covers the first 2 hours of labour, and now includes most of the UK South Coast and bits of Normandy & Britanny.
For me the bit that convinced me was if I was stuck but in no danger (for example anchored) I would never call the RNLI, but Seastart gives me the option to still get home...
I know we should all aim to be self sufficient, but I will not pretend that I know everything about diesel engines, and I might not have the correct parts etc... And without wind there are few options!
Marc.
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Post by malcb on Mar 22, 2007 17:23:09 GMT 1
I must admit I looked at the Seastart membership, then decided that if the engine failed I could do one of two things. Fix it or sail back up to Chi Marina. In fact, if I could get to East Head and anchor I could walk home ;D
The other way would be to lash the inflatable to the side and use the outboard to power me home, or move the outboard bracket onto the stern boarding laddet, with the outboard on that and then it would push me home, or to a place of safety.
I remember hearing a call to Solent CG from a yacht near Osbourne Bay (a mate of mine, a CG, was on the radio that day). The yacht said he couldn't engage gear and gave position, CG said 'can you drop anchor then, and sort it out'. Afterwards he told me they were all shouting, 'put your bloody sails up' ;D
I would agree that you shouldn't call the RNLI, but remember you don't, it's the CG who decide whether a call to the Lifeboat is required (on the facts and circumstances), and that always depends on te circumstances of each case.
Suppose you broke down on the mouth of Portsmouth harbour, just outside near Horse Sand Fort, and there was no wind, the certainly call CG, they won't call a lifeboat, you will probably get help from from one of the inshore Lifeboats, or the Volunteer Harbour Patrol, of it might be me if the MVS are out and about.
A call to the CG is a good move because they can sometimes suggest what you may be able to do to sort the problem out, or if they decide that you may be potentially in danger, then they can help.
It doesn't need a call on Ch 16 (or a MayDay) a call on Ch 67 in the Solent is much better.
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Post by jimbuoy on Mar 22, 2007 17:34:51 GMT 1
I think it is £140 and covers the first 2 hours of labour, and now includes most of the UK South Coast and bits of Normandy & Britanny. For me the bit that convinced me was if I was stuck but in no danger (for example anchored) I would never call the RNLI, but Seastart gives me the option to still get home... I know we should all aim to be self sufficient, but I will not pretend that I know everything about diesel engines, and I might not have the correct parts etc... And without wind there are few options! Marc. Full respect to you Marc, you recognise a possible area of weakness and take steps to cover it. If and when I put in more sea hours per year I think I will join. Jim |
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Post by Barr Avel on Mar 22, 2007 17:35:02 GMT 1
I took out membership last year as I was bringing the boat to the Solent from Plymouth having never sailed it before, and knowing nothing about the reliability of the engine. It felt at the time a bit like a comfort blanket.
Now I hesitate a bit but will keep the cover this year, I think until I have actually had a problem with my engine, and dealt with it myself I will have doubts. Now just in case my engine gets any funny ideas, I am NOT hoping for something to go wrong ;D
Marc.
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Post by searush on Mar 22, 2007 21:54:33 GMT 1
Ex-squeeze me, but as stated above, the RNLI is not a call out service. They are there to help in case LIFE is in danger. they will do that regardless of whether you put money in a box, buy a flag, are a Life Governor of Shoreline or just ignore them completely.
Breakdowns are your own responsibility. If you feel the need for Seastart, and there is one in your area, fine. But you should have sails, anchor, tides, oars, tow warps, fellow sailors & VHF radio etc - as well as a reasonable stock of fuel, tools, spares & manuals to help you get yourself out of trouble. The RNLI should not be treated as a subscription breakdown service nor should they be expected to rescue the ill prepared - though they often have to.
I am a Shoreline member, but would be mortified if I needed rescue from them due to a mechanical breakdown - unless there were added complications! Having said all that (mini-rant?) some RNLI units have been known to try & rescue people who did not want to be rescued!
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Post by kilter on Mar 22, 2007 22:11:08 GMT 1
Ex-squeeze me, but as stated above, the RNLI is not a call out service. They are there to help in case LIFE is in danger. they will do that regardless of whether you put money in a box, buy a flag, are a Life Governor of Shoreline or just ignore them completely. Breakdowns are your own responsibility. If you feel the need for Seastart, and there is one in your area, fine. But you should have sails, anchor, tides, oars, tow warps, fellow sailors & VHF radio etc - as well as a reasonable stock of fuel, tools, spares & manuals to help you get yourself out of trouble. The RNLI should not be treated as a subscription breakdown service nor should they be expected to rescue the ill prepared - though they often have to. I am a Shoreline member, but would be mortified if I needed rescue from them due to a mechanical breakdown - unless there were added complications! Having said all that (mini-rant?) some RNLI units have been known to try & rescue people who did not want to be rescued! I was going to write a long reply but the above says it all...thanks for saving me time Steve! |
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Post by Badger Birch on Mar 22, 2007 23:23:41 GMT 1
When I first bought a keel boat and on my first trip I became stuck in the mud being blown towards rocks as the tide came in. I was green and new to the game so called the Coastguard who asked if I had an anchor, yes I replied, then I suggest you use it was the answer. I had panicked and forgotten to put the anchor out. I just needed that bit of re-assurance which helped no end. Since then I try and be prepared for most things... Would I join Seastart? The answer is no as I know my boat backwards and if I cant fix it then I doubt if anyone else could. If it turns out to be a severe engine problem then I am afraid no one else would be able to fix it with tools and spares they hold. Mine is a sailboat and on occassion I have had to sail on and off of moorings and pontoons. With this in mind I try and practice this now and then with helpful conditions - If you cant do it when the conditions are right then not much chance in adverse conditions!! AIMHO
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Post by Barr Avel on Mar 23, 2007 0:40:36 GMT 1
Ex-squeeze me, but as stated above, the RNLI is not a call out service. They are there to help in case LIFE is in danger. they will do that regardless of whether you put money in a box, buy a flag, are a Life Governor of Shoreline or just ignore them completely. Breakdowns are your own responsibility. If you feel the need for Seastart, and there is one in your area, fine. But you should have sails, anchor, tides, oars, tow warps, fellow sailors & VHF radio etc - as well as a reasonable stock of fuel, tools, spares & manuals to help you get yourself out of trouble. The RNLI should not be treated as a subscription breakdown service nor should they be expected to rescue the ill prepared - though they often have to. I am a Shoreline member, but would be mortified if I needed rescue from them due to a mechanical breakdown - unless there were added complications! Having said all that (mini-rant?) some RNLI units have been known to try & rescue people who did not want to be rescued! OK, I originally mentioned RNLI tongue in cheek but thought about it a bit more. Now don't misunderstand me, I entirely agree that the RNLI is there for rescue. But, I have a Governor membership of the RNLI which is around £50 a year. And the I am paying Seastart £140 odd. What I was wondering was whether, considering that the balance of probability is that 1 nothing will go wrong, 2 if something does go wrong I'll be able to fix it, 3 if I can't fix it I can sail back, 4 if I can't sail I can anchor and get help from a friend, 5 if I can't anchor for some reason I can get a tow of a nearby boat, 6 failing all that I can call the CGs. So I wonder whether the RNLI would rather people took that gamble and gave them the extra £140 instead of using Seastart, considering 99% of people won't call the CG unless they really need to.... Am I making any sense? Finally let's be honest, most cases I have heard of over years where the RNLI have intervened there has been no imminent danger to life or craft. I know this is controversial as it risks alienating a lot non-boating RNLI supporters, but there are a lot of yachties out there who rely on the RNLI to help them out if their engine fails etc... And the CGs are partly to blame because if they don't offer rescue they could be open to litigation etc (theres is an impossible situation which I do not envy one bit). Anyway, it is nice to see so many people are convinced they can deal with mechanical breakdowns. I feel inadequate now! Marc. |
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Post by Barr Avel on Mar 23, 2007 0:47:53 GMT 1
Mine is a sailboat and on occassion I have had to sail on and off of moorings and pontoons. With this in mind I try and practice this now and then with helpful conditions - If you cant do it when the conditions are right then not much chance in adverse conditions!! AIMHO I do agree with you entirely. Whereas I am not 100% that I could solve a problem with my engine, especially if the boat is rocking around on a mooring and I can't think straight, I am entirely confident of my ability to sail my boat off and on a moooring. I have regularly practised mooring in a marina under sail (usually in winter to avoid scared yelling yachties), my boat will tack to windward under main alone making it very easy to control. BUT, I have also tried to do this with no wind whatsoever and I know that it cant get very dangerous the tide takes over. And then of course we all can do things in perfect conditions, but sod's law dictates that my engine will pack up at the worse moment! Marc. |
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Post by malcb on Mar 23, 2007 0:50:12 GMT 1
Ex-squeeze me, but as stated above, the RNLI is not a call out service. They are there to help in case LIFE is in danger. they will do that regardless of whether you put money in a box, buy a flag, are a Life Governor of Shoreline or just ignore them completely. Breakdowns are your own responsibility. If you feel the need for Seastart, and there is one in your area, fine. But you should have sails, anchor, tides, oars, tow warps, fellow sailors & VHF radio etc - as well as a reasonable stock of fuel, tools, spares & manuals to help you get yourself out of trouble. The RNLI should not be treated as a subscription breakdown service nor should they be expected to rescue the ill prepared - though they often have to. I am a Shoreline member, but would be mortified if I needed rescue from them due to a mechanical breakdown - unless there were added complications! Having said all that (mini-rant?) some RNLI units have been known to try & rescue people who did not want to be rescued! As I put in my reply. YOU DON'T CALL OUT THE RNLI. It is up to the local CG whether or not to call out the RNLI or any emergency service that exists in yuour area. If, and I repeat IF, the local CG decides from your radio call that there is a potential danger to life then they will call out the rescue services, be it the RNLI or other local services like GAFIR's (in the Solent). If you have a problem, not a life threatening emergency, then a radio call on the CG working channel (in the Solent 67) will usually give a great deal of help and advice. |
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Post by NigeL on Mar 23, 2007 11:09:04 GMT 1
Ex-squeeze me, but as stated above, the RNLI is not a call out service. They are there to help in case LIFE is in danger. they will do that regardless of whether you put money in a box, buy a flag, are a Life Governor of Shoreline or just ignore them completely. Breakdowns are your own responsibility. If you feel the need for Seastart, and there is one in your area, fine. But you should have sails, anchor, tides, oars, tow warps, fellow sailors & VHF radio etc - as well as a reasonable stock of fuel, tools, spares & manuals to help you get yourself out of trouble. The RNLI should not be treated as a subscription breakdown service nor should they be expected to rescue the ill prepared - though they often have to. I am a Shoreline member, but would be mortified if I needed rescue from them due to a mechanical breakdown - unless there were added complications! Having said all that (mini-rant?) some RNLI units have been known to try & rescue people who did not want to be rescued! As I put in my reply. YOU DON'T CALL OUT THE RNLI. It is up to the local CG whether or not to call out the RNLI or any emergency service that exists in yuour area. If, and I repeat IF, the local CG decides from your radio call that there is a potential danger to life then they will call out the rescue services, be it the RNLI or other local services like GAFIR's (in the Solent). If you have a problem, not a life threatening emergency, then a radio call on the CG working channel (in the Solent 67) will usually give a great deal of help and advice. Years ago ... I was trying to get from Bembridge across Solent to Langstone ... catch the tide. It was blowing a 6 with 7 forecast. Harry and I agreed to make the dash across ... wind in our favour ... reckoned 2 hrs +. We just cam to end of buoyed channel approaching St. Helens fort and outboard on transom bracket took a dunking ... and cut out. So I unrolled about half the genny ... all fine ... 5 mins later Bang ! Forestay came out of deck ... genny unfurled and horizontal from masthead ... mast took alarming bend and it was imminent that all hell was going to give vent !. Harry - ex SBS - put mind over matter and used the furling line to haul that gear down enough that we could wrap sheets round ... While he did that - I used spinnaker halyard to brace fwd of mast in place of stay. By now we were bouncing on Bembridge sands .... with no possible motive means. I called Solent CG direct and advised them of situation ... in rather adrenaline filled voice ... but nicely ! They said Anchor ... put out anchor...... which we did ... in all the mess - like Steve said - their voice is sane and a breath of fresh air in all the sh**e .... Next we are called by Lifeboat ... the Trent class job ... (I think it was a Trent .. anyway the lower coachline one before the high line Arun ...). He couldn't get to us not enough water ... so he advised he would use a Rocket line ... weather by now was awful !! So Harry in Cockpit ... sorting ropes etc. Me on foredeck waiting for line to whizz over ... Got line ... started pulling in to get towing line ... orange dye getting everywhere ... (the rocket line is dyed orange and it's terrible water soluble stuff that stains everything !). So end of tow hauser coming on board ... and I take turns on mooring post ... I have another line ready to connect to spread load as well to bow cleats ... Just get fast and LB starts pulling ... I shout at Harry to get them to stop - I want my anchor up !! Hary swears on VHF ... CG tells him to stop swearing .. LB cox swears at Harry !!! I'm dragging anchor while being towed and also getting if back on board !! LB can be seen churning up sand as he drags me off .... So finally free and I drop behind LB and he decides to take me back into Bembridge ... tow is about 40 - 60 ft by now - he's reeled in about half ... as we proceed in .. he slowly reels me in to short tow ... about 15 - 20ft maybe less. BHAM - he runs aground at the middle ground mark halfway in Bembridge channel ... - guess who cannot avoid stuffing him up the exhaust pipe !! That's pulpit bent over and stemhead fitting ripped out now .. Cox goes Ape ... screams at crew to jump on and sort the buggers out ... so knife wielding LB man jumps on ... slashes sheets etc. and proceeds to use the sheets to lash me alongside LB ... Me ? I know better than to interfere .. so watch the carnage .... So now lashed alongside ... tide falling even more - he punches way through sand etc. to get to the deeper water and get us both into Bembridge Hbr ... Finally tied up to Brading Marina pontoon ... Cox and crew come on for a cup of tea and incident report etc. CG meanwhile have given both of us a rollicking for language on the VHF !! That LB till the day it was replaced carried the mark on the arse end for the short tow ... Final word ... we retired to the Bargerow Inn ... and were welcomed by Landlord .. who we knew .. He had watched along with others the "act" out there and actually bought us our beer ... For me ... RNLI is total hero ... I cannot say bad about them .. I wouldn't go out in some of the weather they put up with ... Their fame is known over here as well ... speak to shipping people here ... RNLI - Kings of their profession. |
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Post by Ken.P. on Mar 23, 2007 11:29:23 GMT 1
1 nothing will go wrong, 2 if something does go wrong I'll be able to fix it, 3 if I can't fix it I can sail back, 4 if I can't sail I can anchor and get help from a friend, 5 if I can't anchor for some reason I can get a tow of a nearby boat, 6 failing all that I can call the CGs. This is more or less my thinking, added bonus of mooring with the fishing fleet is that help is always available and offered freely. I did an engineering apprenticeship, and have always been a "practical" bloke. I just about put everything in Tommy myself, so repairs shouldn't be a problem. Even then I called on the fishermen for help lifting the engine in, it was lifted off the trailer by Hi-ab and dropped on the mountings after fishing boat tied up against me! Of course, in The Wash I can usually walk home! ;D |
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Post by NigeL on Mar 23, 2007 15:32:59 GMT 1
1 nothing will go wrong, 2 if something does go wrong I'll be able to fix it, 3 if I can't fix it I can sail back, 4 if I can't sail I can anchor and get help from a friend, 5 if I can't anchor for some reason I can get a tow of a nearby boat, 6 failing all that I can call the CGs. This is more or less my thinking, added bonus of mooring with the fishing fleet is that help is always available and offered freely. I did an engineering apprenticeship, and have always been a "practical" bloke. I just about put everything in Tommy myself, so repairs shouldn't be a problem. Even then I called on the fishermen for help lifting the engine in, it was lifted off the trailer by Hi-ab and dropped on the mountings after fishing boat tied up against me! Of course, in The Wash I can usually walk home! ;D A couple of enterprising Inshore Fisherman used their A Frame inshore boat to lift outboards of moored mobo's ... without owners permission ... somewhere round solent ... ! Remarkably versatile machinery !! |
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Post by Ken.P. on Mar 23, 2007 15:44:26 GMT 1
I suppose that's one advantage of sailing in the Wash, everybody knows everybody!
Stuff does get nicked off boats on occasion, but you can be fairly sure it's not other local boat owners.
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Post by pete on Mar 24, 2007 0:23:45 GMT 1
I did the RYA diesel with SWMBO, we then went excitedly back to our boat, opened the engine bay to look at our twin D4 260hp Volvo's and did not recognise one bit that we had seen on the 3 cylinder practice engine  What a waste of time, it's mostly controlled by bloody computer. Moving the boat to the South Coast end of May and will join Sea Start, first hours labour is free then local rates. Plus if you are recommended by an existing member both the member and the new member get 2 x free boat show tickets each, choice of SIBS or LIBS  I think the peace of mind is good, plus saves getting hands dirty orhaving to carry tools, just spare parts for them to fit ;D |
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Post by Badger Birch on Mar 24, 2007 0:29:40 GMT 1
I did the RYA diesel with SWMBO, we then went excitedly back to our boat, opened the engine bay to look at our twin D4 260hp Volvo's and did not recognise one bit that we had seen on the 3 cylinder practice engine What a waste of time, it's mostly controlled by bloody computer. Moving the boat to the South Coast end of May and will join Sea Start, first hours labour is free then local rates. Plus if you are recommended by an existing member both the member and the new member get 2 x free boat show tickets each, choice of SIBS or LIBS I think the peace of mind is good, plus saves getting hands dirty orhaving to carry tools, just spare parts for them to fit ;D Where you been Pete? Hiding away... Not bought the QE2 by any chance? |
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Post by searush on Mar 24, 2007 0:33:01 GMT 1
Marc,
I guessed you weren't treating the RNLI as the 4th emergency service, but as this is the "open" forum, I didn't want casual viewers to get the wrong idea. Some of the "Birmingham Navy" brigade have a somewhat cavalier attitude to "phoning for help"!
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Post by pete on Mar 24, 2007 11:56:21 GMT 1
Where you been Pete? Hiding away... Not bought the QE2 by any chance? Been, very, very busy working, now having a well earned rest in Pirate Land, (Caribbean), leaving Monday for two weeks, hope to get time to visit the pirate and forum widow for a rum or ten ;D |
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